The World Of Twilight

Hi All,

(http://www.eastern-empire.com/forums/twilight/empire_cards1.jpg)

I've been involved in a background project with Michael for a few weeks leading up to Salute. Essentially rejuvenating the current unit cards into a new look and configuration. Huge amount of input from Michael, with regard maintaining his hand sketched elements etc. Additionally these will quite likely have rounded corners.

Also, all special rules and notes have been transferred to a single cheatsheet for quick reference by type name and unique [X] letter symbols, I'll post a sample up shortly.

It's been good fun and we feel that at this point, the overall look seems in place. Right now, it's the communities turn to put in some thoughts and feedback. If you like them, great, if there is something off kilt, point it out.

Once we lock in the theme, I'll be blitzing all the units of Anyaral and all Fubarnii and Devanu alike can get their mitts/claws on them :D

Samples :

(http://www.eastern-empire.com/forums/twilight/cards_empire1.jpg) (http://www.eastern-empire.com/forums/twilight/cards_empire2.jpg)

(http://www.eastern-empire.com/forums/twilight/cards_delgon1.jpg) (http://www.eastern-empire.com/forums/twilight/cards_delgon2.jpg)

(http://www.eastern-empire.com/forums/twilight/cards_devanu1.jpg) (http://www.eastern-empire.com/forums/twilight/cards_devanu2.jpg)

Thanks and look forward to your feedback :)

best,
Taelan.

I saw these at Salute, and simply - I want 2 sets please. Simply excellent work, I can't find any fault with them.

They look great, can't wait to get a set.... ;D

missed these at Salute but they are pretty nifty!

I concur entirely. Just gave them a quick look but cant fault it. Other than I didn't have them in my hands for my game tonight and kept having to pass the rules between players - these cant come soon enough!

Great work Taelan. The only comment I'd have made would be the faction logos then I scrolled down and saw you put them on the backs :D

HN

Seb has done a great job with these  ;D
There are a couple of big changes in the presentation on these cards and it would be great to hear some thoughts on those. The first thing is moving the ability text off the cards and onto a central reference. The second is the structure of the ranged weapons. I think the new system should be neater, as well as being easier to keep up to date. What do you think?

Hello,

I am new to the forum.
My son (10 year old Tom) and I attended Salute and bought a whole load of figures to introduce ourselves to the game.
We have already started painting - Tom has painted a Militia figure, a Delgon shocktrooper and a Graku.
Yet to have our first game but very excited.

I saw these cards at Salute and thought they were great. I was surprised they were not for sale - would have bought them. As it is we don't seem to have rules for Tom's Delgon shocktroopers - his favourite unit.

He has already told me he knows what he is getting me for Fathers' Day this year!

Hi All,

Thanks for your thoughts and critique, very handy :D

Here is a sample of the reference sheet for all special rules indicated in the Abilities on the cards. The initial idea is to keep it easy to update, and not make cards future proof is an Ability's rule is updated.

(http://www.eastern-empire.com/forums/twilight/rules_layout.jpg)

Look forward to responses to Carcaroths prompts, interested to see if the weapon table is neat for all. :)

And welcome Serin, look forward to you and your son posting up some models! The cards were work in progress by Salute, as Michael was aiming for feedback during the show, to test out the changes

- Taelan.

My only concern is the need to check rules or sheets for skill descriptions.

With most games that have cards for their units, most of said skills are explained on the card. The back, I was thinking, rather than being just a faction logo, could contain descriptions of the skills, and the fluff, while the fluff space could contain both the ranged information, and on stamina characters, maybe a count-down of stamina, that you could place a bead or such on for tracking purposes (or if they are in card sleeves, ala other games, you could just mark them off with a wipe-clean marker).

I say this as, when more and more models come out, those reference sheets will increase in number, meaning pulling people from the game to check what characters do.

This.
I was a little surprised that rule descriptions weren't on the card

The noble idea is about future proofing the cards; in that should the details of an Ability change, the card is not rendered obsolete by incorrect information.

All that changes is the Reference card (not a dozen or more cards); which by the time you run a few games, you'll be familiar with the Abilities of your characters. The Reference card is set to be a free to download PDF; since of a fashion Twilight has a "living rulebook" with new units appearing constantly.

This is why we bring it up on the forum; get some feedback and see what folk find quirky about the change, definitely taking it all onboard :)

I do like the stamina bead counter idea :D

- Taelan.

I would agree that having a master 'Ability' sheet with the current rules is a good idea. The cards then do not need to be updated all the time.
So my vote is to use the format shown here

Thanks for the feedback. Taelan and I had a couple of discussions about text on cards. I've played a lot of warmachine, which has lots of skills detailed on every card. My first stab at cards followed that approach, but it proved quite time consuming to update cards. Taelan suggested givibg players more credit and having a reference sheet. I think his suggestion works well, although it did mean I had to revisit some abilities to make them more generic. It should also discourage me from adding too many different abilities, which can lead to rules bloat...
What do you think, now you know why we went that route?
You can see a couple of my original cards here (http://www.worldoftwilight.com/forum/index.php?topic=217.0). That link also shows the rules for the shocktroopers. The full rules are in book 2, which should be available for download from the twilight website.
I'm wondering if a separate crib sheet for each culture would be a good or bad idea - you would have less abilities on each sheet, but there would be three of them and you wouldn't have details of your opponents abilities...
Writing stamina on wouldn't work too well as it goes up and down a lot during a game. Gems on the cards could be worth considering.

I can see the logic for a master sheet but I still prefer the original  :P

You mentioned making skills generic. What about, as you have letter codes for the skills, maybe expand that further?

Combat Trained (2SR)
Exceptional luck (2SR)
Engineers box of trinkets (2SR)
Jenta's Lucky throw! (2SR)

2SR = up to 2 stones can be recast, once per combat.

Your skills could have colourful and fitting names dependant on the characters, yet the code tells you what it actually does.

I dunno :P Just tossing brain-farts out.

Having the abilities described on the cards leads to a very cluttered feel, which I reckon detracts from the overall aesthetic of the game. Plus as has been mentioned, it's a lot simpler and cheaper to update a main abilities sheet.

Standardized abilities across factions helps to prevent confusion - though characterful ability names could be useful, with standardized names players will have to reference the abilities sheet much less.

Though I like the idea of abilities on the cards I think I prefer the long-term idea of standardized abilities, as Mike said to prevent the game becoming bogged down in lots of different abilities. Otherwise the end result would be lots of slight variations and confusion.

HN

Having thought about it more, I'll try and be useful rather than just enthusiastic.

I like the new layout of the stats. The previous versions fitted the aethstetic nicely but simply weren't as clear on the references.

With that in mind, I have to ask what the aim of the cards is.

I can see why you've gone this route and appreciate the benefits you forsee, but I'm not sure I agree with the result.
To my mind at least, the cards are there as a reference point for the units you have in any one particular game. As you play more, of course you will get to know the abilities of your troops. But You'll (I'll ) get to know their stats a lot faster than the careful wording of their abilities. So if the card is there for reference, its the reference of the abilities that'll be of more use than referencing the stats.

I can understand that they get cluttered and that it might mean more updating, but having the abilities on the cards would get my vote.

You grab the card, everything's there. You need nothing else beside the table, so there's less clutter.

It also makes it far easier for new players to see what they're using - its all in one place. Glancing down a list of abilities when in a combat and deciding which to use is a lot easier than glancing down a list of ALL the abilities and fathoming which ones you can use from the card at the same time. I appreciate the respect us twilight players are being given in the current design, but at the end of the day, its for reference, which means it needs to make referencing as easy as possible.

On the note of clutter, I like the idea of a marker of some kind on the card to track stamina, even if its just a locator to keep a mini dice on rather than a "gem-slider". I agree that its too fluid to use the marker pen option.

Of course, I've not played a huge amount, and an merely running my mouth on yet another great and useful product design!  ;D

Hmm...good points TuffSkull...am undecided now, lol

HN

I would agree, Tuffskull has put forward a very good case for having the abilities explained on the cards.
 :-\
However, I think I am in the 'don't mind' group. Having the full explanations on the cards or not having them (if that makes sense) would not be my deciding factor in buying the cards. I would get them either way.

 I like the look of the new cards, and agree with Tuffskull that having the abilities explained on the cards are  great when showing new players what each figure can do. So if you go with the new layout and have an abilities sheet.
why not do a small group of cards that cover the starter sets abilities explained on the cards just for intro games.

Hi All,

A lot of back channel chatting with Michael as he recovers from Salute. He is going to tighten up the ability descriptions and we're currently reworking a few elements in lieu of the great feedback from the forum, thanks for your input! Definitely give you all a heads up when version 2 comes about :D

Now whilst I wait on copy, I should finish Colours of Anyaral!

- Taelan.

Something I just noticed is the colour for the Empire is quite close to the colour for the Devanu ( for the boxes etc).

HN

Mmm indeed, that was moi forgetting to flick on a certain level in photoshop. The Empire have the usual light red boxes, as per rulebooks. The Devanu, blood red.

Trading layout retouches and some juggling of icons at the moment; should look spot on when we reveal soon.

Thanks for the heads up though HN,

Taelan.