The World Of Twilight

Announcing that today i started design work on potentially the third kit in the series... (whilst waiting for both production kits and prototypes to come back from fenris).

THE WATCHTOWER

Design intent:

• A 2 (or maybe 3) storey building (pryn-gul tower is 4).
• Defensible ground floor entrance, no ground floor windows.
• A full height Butress to one side where the building may either form an abutment to a section of fortification wall (yet to be designed) or could meet one end of a bridge Tew-Fah, or stand alone and simply look like reinforcement.
• A flat roof with encircling railing.
• A raised covered watch platform of hexagonal or octagonal design.

I'm undecided whether to use a cylindrical object to base this on or a more conical one. I am erring for conical as I think that gives a more 'squat' appearance which would look good as a fortified building.

Once I have fleshed out the main design then I shall see if i can squeeze a signalling 'clacks' device on the top f the watchtower roof to act as an alarm signal.

comments etc welcome.

EDIT:  have just discovered that a 500ml Ben and Jerry's ice cream tub is EXACTLY half the ehight of a pringles tube, and therefore perfect to meet the other end of the Tew-Fah bridge...  so, Bennan Watchtower it is!

shhh dont tell anyone i showed you this initial sketch or they'll all want to know "how much will it be?" "when will it be finished?" and "can i have one in pink?" all those awkward questions.


long way to go... beam work on the tub, optional end rail. slaes or some other cladding on the roof structure, hatchway etc etc..

what do you think?

ooooooooooooh





can i have one in pink?

 ::)

sigh
never let it be said i am not customer focused
(note i've even added in the missing end rail for you!)

Shiny, very very shiny. I'm guessing that this could be positioned at the other end of the tew-fah bridge?

Very nice  :)

Will you do an optional door and roof hatch so it can work as a standalone building as well?
Is the trim at the bottom added detail or the existing shape of the tub?

Thank you for your positive (non pink) comments Carcharoth and Rick!

@Rick - yes the flattened section will join to Tew-Fah (3rd bullet in original post describes)

@Carchartoth - Yes mike, the flange around the bottom is the lip of the ice cream tub. It's much thinner card than a pringles tube so its going to need a base plate to hold it circular and i think it's going to need the beam work to maintain its rigidity.

As this is a defensive structure i'm a little unsure whether to apply the beamwork as per the Pryn-Gul Tower? I want it to blend into the style of the other buildings, but it strikes me that rendered/stucco walls with wooden beams wouldn't look fortified? Also if I'd put the buttress on the other buildings it would have been entirely wooden. and that doesn't seem defensive enough for me?

roof hatch - certainly, i have a supplier.  Optional door is actually a little trickier. Because this is a cone, to get a vertical door rather than a sloped one I have to provide another vertical surface so build it out with styrene structure. Its not difficult. Or i could put the door at the base of the buttress? and it would be covered by the bridge if attached?

I was thinking along the lines of the door being on the flat side, with a fancy painted (or raised) design sitting above it.

I would imagine lots of variation in style between buildings, or even between different parts of the same building. Maybe include a few interesting features to break up the large area.

I've just been investigating the differences between Ben and Jerry's and Hagen Dazs - B&Js has a much more solid raised lip at its base (the top of your building), but other than that they are quite similar. Might be worth seeing if you can maintain compatibility with both?

I guess you have already been wondering at the possibility of a modular set of walls, with straight wall sections connecting the B&J towers? That could be a very flexible design with lots of uses, particularly if you can work your magnetic supports into it. The vertical support section would be ideal for concealing the magnets in just the right spot...

Sorry Alan, you know I love you really........ ;D

I also immediately saw the potential for fortress type walls. If you had a kit with two of the flat sections you could build them at 180, 120, 90 deg apart and use them along with a TBD wall section to build all sorts of interesting shaped fortress walls.

I also had a cunning idea which would be for a tall tower with 3 bridges at 120 deg each with a fortress tower at the end.

yeah walls are something I've been thinking about for a little while... magnets in the vertical supports is also on my list!

tower with 3 bridges @ 120 degrees could be done with the pryngul tower, 3 x tewfah and 3 watchtowers.

I suspect a Sketchup of that would gather you a lot of enthusiasm, Brandlin :D      Go on, you know you want to...

mutter mutter

ok ok seeing as you insist...

this is a potential modular bennan tower.

It has 120 degree symmetry, with 3 potential joining points to walls. If you want a wall attached then you add the vertical flat sections. If you don't then you add the brackets for the balcony - a great spot for slingers/herders.

The picture shows a Few-Fah bridge attached to one of the attachment points, and a balcony.  Remember most of the fubarnii only need to defend against Devanu and other wild beasts - perhaps bandits etc. so i haven't gone to town on crenellations etc...


Now, let me go and mock-up some wall sections before Gethuch nags about them...

Will they do ?

Cool! :D :D

Amazing work Brandlin, just amazing. If I wasn't between jobs and penniless, I'd be snapping up loads of these.

Is it only me who starts imagine a small village on my desk, surrounded by those towers n' walls?


Then, taking a "step back" in my imagination and expanding the idea to a fortified town:

               R
                R
                R
      O       R     O
        \     R     /
         O-===-O
        /  H     S  \
       /  P        W \
O--O   H    T   H  O--O
       \  H        P  /
        \  S    H   /
         O-===-O
        /     R     \
      O      R      O
             R
              R
               R
              R

-, /, \ wall
= gate
O tower
R road
P pyn-tower
S stables
W engineers workshop
T townhall
H habitat

the outer towers are conneted to the fortifications with the bridges, and not walls per se.


Will get silly expensive but... GOSH! The modeller inside craves...

silly expensive...

I think that's about £400 for around 45 buildings (some of which i've not even thought of yet!) - you never know i might even give you a discount for that much!

Mind you that layout is about 4 foot square too!

One of the things i've been wanting to do is finish the designs for half a dozen buildings and variants and then give mike a picture of a fubarnii town... all higgledy and chaotic and unplanned...

I think your modular approach and using sketchup should make is much easier to come up with mashup buildings once you have a few to work from. That then opens up all sorts of possible town designs.

The other issue is defining what is a 'town' given Fubarnii settlements are on similar scales to ours, most games will be fought on the edge of a settlement or in a small village.

I really like the tower and walls idea, but given that the Empires only 'current' threat is from packs of Devanu, large city walls would not strictly be necessary for defence, more like demarcation of zones (keeping the riff raff out of the nice areas). Stockades might be more appropriate for villages with a large Devanu threat.

Stockade is a good word... I was trying for that look... which is why the watchtowers have open railings and covered lookouts rather than crenelations and battlements.

The bit i dont like it the vertical walls... they should be sloped.  I'd paint them as stone beams on the bottom and with a flint-like covering on the lower panles and with wood/stucco above. they only need to be tall and thick enough to stop a devanu kopa from leaping over.

Nope

I think Brandlin needs to take your town plan and do the whole lot up in his building program :D

Ouch!

Perhaps the walls should be sloped, with an overhang at the top? Bit like a 'K' cross-section?

Yes, I agree but then i have a problem joining them to the towers in a way that will also accept the bridge. I'll work on it... it is WIP after all.


Yeah like i don't have a life... oh wait...

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_RRKBhA-2I4w/TAWWarRZKfI/AAAAAAAACpA/_rAbrlcaow0/Benan%20Gerees%20wall%20complex%203.jpg)

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_RRKBhA-2I4w/TAWWadpHNrI/AAAAAAAACo8/c7EW8pGJ-II/Benan%20Gerees%20wall%20complex%202.jpg)

Now, boys and girls, can i stop answering silly questions and go back to making stuff ?  ;)

Oh my good gracious. That's just amazing Brandlin - when you get the rest of your planned models done, use this picture as an advert! It's great!

...    :o

Yup, that was what I meant. That's some good advertising!

Now you just need to drop it into a suitable format for POVRAY, skin it with some nice textures, and render it up with some fractal terrain in the background and campfire smoky drifting around the towers... ;)

I might know someone who is mightly handy with Photoshop - like really handy. If you like I will chat him up about doing some Box art for you using these models. It's the type of job he would love.
(He also designs Pinball Machine art in his spare time - you know the back light pannel)

With box art image coupled with a finished proto and the instructions that you are doing in the first place these will really sell themselves. There is a lot of folk out there that want Elvenesq buildings which this might just fall into for the blinkered folk.

Lord of Wormwood

Thank you guys.

Personally I prefer this sketchy line art to a fully rendered photo image - i think it helps to show the 'idea' of a model in the early stages so oyu focus on the concept rather than getting bogged down in the detail.

I agree however that fully rendered photo images would be good for advertising and such like. I can render the models as I have drawn them, I haven't yet because I drew the models at their actual size and all the bitmaps I have are for real life scale architecture so they dont offer any kind of texture.  Its something I may work on but really isn't a priority for me.

Thanks for the offer Lord of Wormwood (whats your name? Stephen? I can't keep calling you Lord, it's sooo deferrential!) If i need something doing i shall certainly keep your offer in mind. However I'm using the sketch images on the packing (A4 sheet inserted in clear grip lock bag) partly because i think the style helps to tie the range together, abut mostly because printing black and white line art is cheaper and I can do it here at home.

Oh Poo!

Ok I have been working on the detail of the canopy of the Bennan Watchtower.  I like this component as it will ultimately fit not just on the Bennan watch tower but also on the Stables kit and any other flat roofed building. In fact it can be added to any structure as a cover.

But i have run into a significant problem

The picture shows the structure with a few bits hidden to allow you to see the detail. (the balusters are also not drawn in, the 'floating ring' is the location for the hand rail railing).


So a small prize (mostly consisting of a packet of smugness to whoever can tell me what they think the problem might be. And a bigger prize to those that can solve it!

sigh...

I can see potentially 2 or 3 fiddly type problems, but nothing that I'd think was "significant". Give us a clue?

Fiddly eh? Hmm well there's nothing in the structure I've not done before except the join between the tops of the pillars and the beams...  that might be awkward as the cut outs are a bit small. But no that's not the problem.

It's not a laser cutting or assembly problem its a design problem...

Anything to do with that central pole and the roof trusses?

Is the gap between the pillars less than 30mm?

Yup its about 27mm

now the tricky bit... what to do about it?

I could move the pillars outwards but that would mean doing the railing in sections and then you couldn't use the railing without the pillars so you'd have to have the canopy top on your watchtower.

I could move the whole railing ring outwards to allow the pillars to move outwards but that would mean it overlaps the top of the building so would require a 9.6mm overhang minimum and that destroys the shape of the building.

I could have a pentagonal canopy with a pillar every 72 degrees rather than hexagonal and 60 degrees. This would then mean that locations for stockade walls would be every 72 degrees too (otherwise you get a wall and walkway meeting the tower with a pillar in the way) This would mess up the locations to things like the pryn-gul tower when you came to lay out a number of interconnected buildings.

I could use square pillars, where they are cut as legs from the main trusses so they are only 2mm thick (that saves about 1.5mm) and then lean them outwards - ie they are not vertical. That would allow a figure to be placed inside and then lowered but its a bit fiddly and gonna get annoying during a game.

I could leave the canopy top loose so that you take it off to put figures inside but that will mean the pillars are very weak as they'll only be glued at one end and locating the roof will be a nightmare with the current join. I could replace the join with magnets so it snaps on and off but again this feels like a pain during a game.

I could use a bigger base item for the tower which is effectively the same solution as the first one allowing the pillars to move outwards. this is basically starting again...

tum tee tum - what to do....?




On the plus side I've had a great idea for a Devanu Cage....

27mm? That's close...
Allowing the roof to be removed sounds like a neat option. You could maybe do some horizontal struts at the top to support the verticals? Or a solid round section that the roof then sits on (rather than slotting into the pillars themselves).

Or...

Could you simply use the tubing as six thick verticals on the railings, then do the roof pillars to line up over those? You would only need to provide the thick bits to convert the standard railings to covered railings. Would that even be enough to gain 3mm?

yes, a generous person would refrain from yelling "I told you so!" about the issue of 25mm or 30mm base choices...

"I TOLD YOU SO!"

:)

I'm looking at running the vertical pillars 'through' the railings - I can use a thinner tube through the railing, and then slip a bigger tube over it - it would also provide a very solid structure as the railing would brace the pillars. This would mean that the canopy wouldn't be as useful elsewhere though as it would only assemble to the railing.  

It also looks as though that only gets me to about 30.3mm... which isn't enough. i really need to get up o 33+ i think to ensure that figures can at least reasonably easily be removed.

I'm coming more to the idea of a removable canopy with braces as you say - and magnetic attachment. even so getting fat gamer fingers into the top is going to be awkward I was trying to avoid having braces between the tops of the towers or a disc as i liked the clean open look of the beamed structure.

But whatever i do it's going to be a compromise...

... still thinking.

I could have a hexagonal canopy but supply just five pillars so one of the gaps between pillars is roughly twice the width of the others?

sometimes the simplest ideas are the best

Why not make the roof an irregular hexagon? with 3 long edges and 3 short edges? would that help? (might look good too!)

Hmm.
How about splitting the vertical pillars at a hight thats looks handrail hight. Have the lower halves fixed to the tower with a handrail around the top. In the hand rail would be 2 or 3 locator holes for the upper section which contains the upper verticals and the roof. The bottom of the verticals would also have the same size piece as the handrail to match the lower one when the top section is placed on.
This means the roof can be totally left off and the model still look complete.
Quick sketch...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/Klute/watchtower.jpg)

Don't forget the models can be tilted, so you don't need much room around the base to slide it through. I think it might actually look a bit neater with the verticals forming part of the handrail structure, however you end up doing it.

If you had pointed out to me that 30mm bases would cause a problem for your pringle pagodas when I first made that somewhat arbitrary decision about basing (2 years ago), then yes, you could have said I told you so. But you didn't, so  :P

This idea is going to over-complicate the design, but could you put the pillars on the outside of the handrail and have a wider support on the tower itself for them to sit on?

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. Thats why I like asking here.. you get lots of response.

Klute - thanks for the idea and you even drew a pic you hero! If i understand correctly then your suggestion is what I was trying to say in the post starting "I'm looking at running the vertical pillars 'through' the railings..." but you describe it better. It suffers because the canopy cannot then be used elsewhere. I've since done the maths and even doing that doesn't get me enough extra sapce so its a lot of work to still not solve the problem. That also scuppers carcharoths suggestion a couple of posts above.

Its a shame this doesn't give more width as it would be my preferred way of having the roof be detachable is to have rods from the bottom of the towers slip down into tubes in the railing - accurately locating and very solid.

Emberbreeze's suggestion is one of those simple ones that challenges your preconceptions - why does the hexagon have to be regular? Clearly it doesn't! its just that's the easy way to draw it.  I need to play with the model to see if i can get enough space and still a shape i like. but its a contender.

Ricks suggestion to put the pillars on the outside of the railing will work but means extending the diameter of the base beyond the railing - which i think will look odd. just to get to 30mm i need to extend the radius almost 10mm and another 10 to get to 33mm, thats almost a 60% increase in the diameter of the base! so i think from a pure trigonometry position this wont work.. although it took me a while with the cad to prove that to myself.

Leavig out a pillar still works though

Mike's point about tilting the base to get the figure in is very valid and will work in the horizontal axis. but there isn't too much head room to play with here either.  Using the current configuration each floor is 56.5mm high (why? cos its a pringles tube divided by 4 thats why - silly question)  deduct the height of the hand rail and you only have 43.5mm of vertical height.

I tried this by taking a piece of card and cutting a 27 x 43mm hole in it and tried to pass a figure through - its very fiddly.  And that's before you try to get devanu on 40mm bases or a mounted fubarnii knight in there. Possible but most gamers will complain about it i think.

So, still not sold on the solution but a missing pillar, irregular hexagon and detachable roof (somehow) are all in the mix.

I think i shall start the "we demand smaller bases" petition!  All mine are going on 20mm square ones so i can rank em up in regiments anyway ! :p

What about triangular roofs rather than hexagonal. Just three pillars and the trusses .. lots less styrene too and still maintains the ability to do 120 degree symmetry for the wall connections.

I think this sounds elegant and wouldn't look like a compromise and complete resolves the problem for 30 and 40mm bases!

off to sketch it

Taking the irregular hexagon to the extreme!  ;)

Ok, maybe not as great as i thought...

the structure is fine and the pillars good but the triangular cover doesn't feel as thouh it actually covers the top of the tower. maybe a different shape to the lower edge?

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_RRKBhA-2I4w/TCOED50osSI/AAAAAAAAC0c/4b7SCLTScKk/3Canopy.jpg)(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_RRKBhA-2I4w/TCOFCRpHxmI/AAAAAAAAC0o/Wg-jcQrUnaQ/3Canopy2.jpg)

Conical roof on 1 centre post like a parasol ??

Keep the hexagonal roof, but mount it on 3 pillars, equal spacing and maximum coverage.

well I've had another try and squeezed a little more space and tried to keep the original design. I've enlarged the square extension additions a little so you can get a base in each of them. In the picture shown, 1 forms a balcony and the other two form the connections to the walls.  I'm hoping to supply the kit with parts for the the tower to be connected to 0,1 or 2 walls.

I've modeled some 30mm bases on there too. the three outermost ones sit outside of the pillars and the three inner ones are inside ...just ... its still a squeeze to get the inside ones in but i'm going to experiment with some small magnets places in the base of the pillars so that the whole top structure lifts off.

I'd really like to keep the overall structure and style AND be able to get a number of figures in... what do you think is this too much of a compromise?

Oh, and I also meant to ask...what do you think of for the material of the canopy? should this be slate/shingles as the other conical roofs? or should I model it to be planked? Or are you going to want both?   I do hink that I am never going to get all of this into 2 A4 sheets of styrene though - its starting to look expensive... :(

I just put an update on Benan watchtower progress on my blog. Most of which has been seen here before, with the exception of this exploded view of the 107 watchtower components.


I would still like your views on the covering for the canopy roof.  shingled or planked?

I think planked might offer a different look and fits with the stockade walls.

If someone really wanted shingled they could use the existing sheets and do it themselves.

yeah i was thinking about radial planking on one side and then horizontal lines on the reverse to align the shingles to. then i remembered i can only cut one side! doh!

I guess as this is hexagonal it can be shingled using the straight shingles kits - it doesn't need a bespoke curved set. 

Planking it is then

I've spent a half hour or so making a mock-up of the base of the Benan Wtachtower. I dont normally do this on the models - the first time there is a phsical assembly is when i put together the test cut from the laser cutter, but in this instance i wanted to check the access for fitting figures onto the watchtower platform. This mock-up is made from hand cut pieces.

From the CAD geometry I knew that this would be tight but that the figures would fit on the platform, what was less clear was if the figures could be placed between the pillars.


The answer is - YES THEY WILL!  You have to tip the figure to get it between the pillars and it is a little fiddly but I think worth the effort to keep the overall design of the tower.

The roof shown is the prototype for the stables kit - the watchtower will have the canopy shown in the CAD images, but it shows the versatility of being able to swap roofs should you wish.


Figures here are Hasslefree Grymn (space dwarfs) on 25mm bases. They are just what I had available and based.  No tipping required here.

The final picture shows further options with this kit. As the upper surface of the watchtower is the same diameter as a Pringles tube (in fact it incorporates some sections of Pringles tube to extend the height slightly) a section of tube and therefore parts from the tower or stables kit too can be added to the watchtower to create another unique design.


I don't seem to be able to get away from Pringles tubes do I?

It would also be possible to mount the watchtower platform on the top of such a tube extension and then the canopy on top of that.  (I meant to take a picture of that but I have glued the platform down ... doh!)

Bigger pictures are available on my blog (http://brandlin.blogspot.com).

As always comments, suggestions and your money are greatly appreciated!

The combined tower looks good. Probably more like what I would do with it, since although I like the idea of a multi tower/wall fortress I don't have space or money for one.

That tower linked to the pringle tower with the bridge and the stables and eventually homesteads would make for a very eye catching town!

Thanks Ben. I'm impressed with this one myself! The way the modularity is working out is pleasing too.

I have an aim in my head to have enough scenery designed and made to be able to provide scenery for a table at Salute 2010. If that's for Mike and Twilight then great, if not then someone else.  I fancy being able to show  the same layout painted and unpainted. But that will get expensive!

2D geometry complete!

teaser pics... bigger pics and more discussion on my blog.

hoping to have prototypes cut next week (along with the stockade walls) and pre-orders open by 2nd August.

Wow! those look very pretty!

especially like the planked roof and the detail on the tower floor.

What possible building arrangements does this allow?

erm.... you could try building it the way it was designed you know?

no?

err ok...

off the top of my head... 

you can attach 0,1 or two stockade walls (or bridges) - you can attach 3 if you cannibalise another kit.

1 of the stockade attachment points has a door in it which is covered up if you attach a wall so it acts as a main door for the watch tower if used stand alone.

There is enough 'fencing' or palisade supplied to go around the whole of the upper platform, or if you are creating a tower in a wall, you can use railing on the inside 60 degrees - this will match the pallisade/railing option on the bridge and walls.

with or without canopy

with canopy replaced by a roof from one of the pringles based kits

you can raise the upper platform by including a pringles tube section on the top of the benan jerry's tub - the wall sections will still fit. the raised platform can then have the canopy applied or replaced by a conventional pringles roof from one of the other kits.

the pillars in the canopy will take a 4mm magnet and the platform is recessed to receive them also, so the canopy should be snap-fit. the wall sections are also magnetically attached. I shall probably sell the magnets separately as they are one of the most expensive components (14 of them for this kit and 8 for each wall section) and they are optional s people can choose to buy them or not.

If you are prepared to modify the kit you can probably make a completely straight wall section with the tower in the middle but twilight doesn't do straight does it.  I might sell an alternate to this kit to make that - its mostly the same parts.

there's a cast trap door  to be provided which fits in the square recess you can see in the platform top - you can have that included or omitted , open or closed.

and if you know the secret password it transforms into a Eurofighter Typhoon complete with full multi-role payload.

will that do?

Oh, its worth noting that i've ditched the pencil idea - cheaper but harder to have the magnetic option.

also you need a 500ml Ben and Jerry's ice cream tub (i'm working on what minor modifications i need to make it from a hagan daz tub - i think i'll be able to make it the same kit.)

you also need a ring section of pringles tube. I use this to lift the platform to the right height for the walls and its way cheaper than styrene.

I have a question for you customers...

I'm using magnets in the benan watchtower for the first time. I can 'hide' the magnets that connect the walls and the towers by placing them behind the styrene so that they attract each other through 2 thicknesses of styrene, but this gives less 'snap' when the pieces are pushed together.  How important is hiding the magents to you?

also, if you don't have the canopy in place on the watchtower, are you bothered about having the 6 holes remaining that the pillars sit in? Or would you expect to have them 'invisible'?

once I have drawn the 2D geomoetry I then take it back into sketch-up, give it depth and then reassemble it. This does two things. 1) it forms the basis of the assembly instructions. 2) it helps me spot any remaining issues with the geometry.

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_RRKBhA-2I4w/TDMmB2pqdkI/AAAAAAAAC4Y/MrEfXVyennQ/benanfinalmockup.jpg)

I found a couple with this- for example the join between the lower beam and the lip of the ben and jerry's tub is incorrect.

Also i thought you might like to see the door detail and the trap door.


I also have some 3d animation i've been playing with, but i cannot figure out how to embed it here... have a look on my blog...

damnit damnit damnit.

I've just finished a tub of ben and jerry's ice cream - and it was yummy.

But i was fiddling with the tub and noticed something...

Its a different size to the half dozen I already have and have designed the kit around. Its fully 2mm out in a coupele of places...

why is there no icon for slamming your head on the desk in frustration?

Oh dear...
I'm sure people will cope somehow!

the variation seems to be in the diameter of the base of the tub and the recess... I had a fairly neat system for mating it to a pringles tube to add the height needed to bring it up to 2 full stories, but twith this variation, the tube is too sloppy to glue in the hole! grrr...

I'll work round it ... but it makes me wonder how much variation there is likely to be...

after extensive field testing i can confirm - the different flavours come in different sodding sized tubs!!!

ffs!

Typical. I guess it is more likely to be different batches in different sizes. Surely if they are different sizes, there must be more ice cream in some than others!?!?! Off to Tescos with ruler...  :)

probably is different batches/sizes, however all the cookie dough ones i have are slightly bigger than all the other flavours!

Ruler? Pah... I've been shopping with a vernier caliper before now!  I was asked what i was doing whie measuring tin cans the other week - you wouldn't believe how many different sizes of them there are!!

You are quite crazy... Are the tolerances in your original design going to cope with these differences in packaging size?

In an attempt to cheer you up - Beth was building her stable this weekend and seemed to be thoroughly enjoying herself! Jules now has her eyes set on my stable kit, so I might have to order another one so that I get some bits to play with...

Why yes I was.  And now cursing the fact that my super glue dried up and I haven't had a chance to get any more, so I can't carry on with it tonight.

Its just that I've found this difference in the only measurement that has needs a small tolerance. it wouldn't matter anywhere else except in the place where the pringles tube meets the tub. On 10 of the 12 tubs i have it fits perfectly on 2 it wont go in!!

I'll sort it, it's just...grrrrrrrrr


So let me get this straight, its takes several inches of plastic for me to make a woman happy? ;)

(i really didn't say that out loud did i? :( )

glad you like the kits guys... I''ll sort the watchtower... i have ideas already... this is just one of those embuggerations.

Alternatively you just make people aware they might need to eat a few tubes to find one that works. I'm sure they wont complain!

nope - its OK, I have a work around... good job i'm a genius... :)

some more teaser pictures to prove i haven't given up completely

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_RRKBhA-2I4w/THO679xVzZI/AAAAAAAADB4/e5uyouCuwRQ/s400/watchtowerwithoutroof.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_RRKBhA-2I4w/THO6-Pz_NEI/AAAAAAAADCA/Ha-pi8U2DDk/s400/watchtowerwithroof.jpg)

more discussion, bigger click-able pictures and detail on my blog

That looks fantastic. The sunken pillar supports don't look out of place either, even without the roof attached.

Ok the kit sheets are finalised - i'm now just waiting on availability of fenris games to cut these, but they are flat out with Heresy's dragon :(

The watchtower will be sold with two optional rooves.

Basic  tower:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_RRKBhA-2I4w/TQKg41VF2AI/AAAAAAAADME/Rk351BuwDEY/s640/TWF-04A+no+tab+copyright.gif)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_RRKBhA-2I4w/TQKimin0YcI/AAAAAAAADMM/HfRx6cbLHGs/s320/TWF-04B+no+tab+copyright.gif)

Option A - Conical shingle/slated roof
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RRKBhA-2I4w/TQKltDWe6LI/AAAAAAAADMg/R_0FA5zkYu4/s320/TWF-04C+no+tab+copyright.gif)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_RRKBhA-2I4w/TQKlWZqL5qI/AAAAAAAADMc/hwLHlOyIctg/s640/TWF-04D+no+tab+copyright.gif)

Option B - planked roof
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_RRKBhA-2I4w/TQKmv3DZaLI/AAAAAAAADMo/r9YmTrfupyk/s320/TWF-04E+no+tab+copyright.gif)