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Poll
Question: Should we tweak the herder light cavalry rules?
Nope - they are fine as they are. - 0 (0%)
Yup - throwing during movement would work - 13 (92.9%)
Yup - but keep them the same and drop their points - 0 (0%)
Yup - but I've got another solution that I've detailed in a post... - 1 (7.1%)
Total Voters: 14

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Author Topic: Herder Light Cavalry  (Read 4208 times)
Carcharoth
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« on: September 23, 2011, 11:24:25 am »

Hi all,

One of the great things about having a community like this is having the opportunity to see what people think about the rules and possibly suggest ideas. I hope you don't mind, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on something...

Recently we've been having some discussions about the Empire's light cavalry. While they are an interesting option, there is a general feeling that they are just a bit too many points as they are.

We've discussed a number of options for them and the favourite at the moment is a simple tweak to allow them to throw their spears at any point during their movement (e.g. move 6", throw the spear at something within four inches then move a further 4"). This would allow them to actually harass infantry without always leaving them in a position where they'll get engaged (and probably killed).

So what do you guys think? Are the light cavalry too expensive, do you like the suggested tweak, or do you have a better idea? I've added a poll as well, just to get a feel for the general opinion.
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Lost Egg
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« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2011, 03:39:19 pm »

I've not played the rules yet but I do like the idea that they can throw their spears at any point in their movement.

HN
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TuffSkull
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« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2011, 06:01:26 pm »

Likewise, I've not played with them, so cant comment on their point value as such, but the proposed throwing during one's movement would seem to fit the bill very nicely as light cavalry, performing the same role as horse archers often did.
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matthewk
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« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2011, 09:54:51 am »

its a good idea, but on the movement after throwing , maybe randomize the movement,  i think it would fit in with the fact hes having to hoist a spear aim and throw it from a moving creature while at the same time control his speed and direction! so the cavalry could move for example d6 in the players chosen direction?
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its a crazy idea ....but it might just work!
Megatron0
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« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2011, 12:50:44 pm »

If the movement becomes random then the point cost should be dropped as well. I voted for the spear throwing movement because it adds movement control to somethingthat isn't knights. If the rules changei shall be buyingsome Cheesy
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guppug
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« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2011, 07:52:18 pm »

had a couple of games last night useing Herder Light Cavalry in the first 2 games  they were used as in the 2nd rule book.
In the next 4 games  they were the best troops on the table we allowed  them to throw their spears at any point during their movement Undecided
 the problem was they could throw a spear at a target 4" away and then move 10" so they were 14" away from the Devanu the only way to catch them is  to use a pont of stamina and sprint giving a move of 15 " the Kosok, jenta and Grishak will never catch them.
If you allow the light cavalry to throw spears at any point in their movement i think  the points cost needs to go up to 25+ points each.
If they stay the same the ponts need to be reduced to 10-15 points
or for 20 points they can move 5" and throw a spear 5" or throw a spear and then move 5"
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 01:26:20 pm by guppug » Logged

Carcharoth
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« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2011, 09:48:25 pm »

Ooh, interesting. We've never found them to be overpowered (although I did get a bit massacred in the last game when all my grishak died to fortuitous stones...), but it might just be that nobody has been using them so well! I would have thought it rare for a player to let the herders start 4" away. We've also generally just used them as harassing troops rather than in larger numbers.

How many were you using in your game, and how big was it?

Thanks for the feedback.
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guppug
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« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2011, 11:42:50 pm »

500 point games  we had 2 Herder Reyed 10 light Cavalry 2 Knights 1 Knight Captain and a unit of  Militia, 1 Captain & 5 Militia, and a trade caravan

The Devanu had 1 Kopa 2 jenta 2 Kosok and 7 Grishak

The 2 Reyad and 10 light cavalry were split in to 2 groups of 6 these 2 units were sent out in front of the rest of the units as a skirmish screen they never went close to any of the Devanu. Just throw the spear if in range or move away far enough so that the the Devanu were out of  range  to make contact when they moved  if they were engaged they moved away and then the spear was thrown.
We played 4 games useing the ammended rules and the herders biggest loss was 4 figures out of 12
next time we will have a few jenta with spears to see if they make a diffrence.
The 2 Herder Reyed 1 had a Bolas and 1 had a staff sling with the 11 models throwing missiles there were up to  22 stones cast in a turn
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Carcharoth
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« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2011, 09:48:16 am »

Yup, that's a very high proportion of light cavalry!

One thing is that the beasts are particularly susceptible to ranged attacks so I'm guessing you had the same problem I did in my last game - the grishak died quickly, leaving you thoroughly outnumbered and incapable of dishing out enough damage. I'll test out a similar scenario to yours when I get a chance and see how it plays out.

I'd also be very interested to see how that force would work against a Delgon force...
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Emberbreeze
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« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2011, 12:10:14 pm »

Or a force with fewer beasts and more Devanu. I wonder if with that many missles flying it would be enough to tire out the devanu with dodging all the spears.
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guppug
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« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2011, 09:04:09 pm »

we used the light cavalry to target mainly  the beasts and Jenta the Kopa had to use 1 or 2 points of stamina to get into contact then another 1 stamina to assassinate.  if the light cavalry survived it and it had a chance to move before a combat counter  is drawn it  moved 4" away and threw its spear. If a combat counter is drawn first the light cavalry will be lucky to still be alive but it can happen.
Against Delgon i think the Kaljoran might be harder to kill useing  DEFENSIVE LINE and the KalMalog will still have to use 1 or 2  stamina to move into contact and thenuse another  to assassinate and use up to 50% of its stamina in 1 turn.
 It was only when we used the throw spear at any point in its movement they became verry good troops when we used them as in the OF GODS AND DEAMONS rule book they were ok but not excellent troops. when i play this next i will limit the light cavalry to 5 models and a captain and take more knighs or use the same troops for the empire and give the Devanu a Sempa and 2 jenta with spear
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Megatron0
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« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2011, 09:49:05 pm »

I plan to Playtest the light cavalry myself later on this week so I can add some feedback on Friday.
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