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Author Topic: How far do you have to move to move more than 4"  (Read 2102 times)
hithero
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« on: April 04, 2014, 06:20:11 pm »

No, it's not such a silly question (I hope) Smiley
As far as I can tell, a model can move wherever it wants, with any amount of direction changes as long as it doesn't go over an impassible object up to its maximum move allowance.
So, the knights of Relan get a bonus if they move over 4", if they start 2" away from an enemy, is there anything stopping it from moving 3" back and then 5" forward into contact?  Or just take a sweeping 8" curve into any model it likes even though the target is closer than 4" at the start of the move.

Should there be a rule that states that if a model gets a 'charge' bonus of any kind by having to move x", it must move by the shortest distance possible to reach its victim?  Without it, there is no reason to give a minimum move distance.
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TuffSkull
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« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2014, 06:37:43 pm »

Good point. We've always assumed charges are made via the shortest possible route to target, but if you're playing competitively then you're right it can currently be abused and should maybe be clarified.
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Kryptovidicus
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« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2014, 07:24:10 am »

You could go very far in making a cheatproof ruleset (look at the changes from Warmachine Mk1 too Mk2). And still there are players who find small gaps in the rules to uabuse.
I prefer to think all players should use common sense and see yourselves as a general with troops counting on you during the game (I'm still a roleplayer at heart  Wink).
That's not to say it shouldn't be clarified. But rather there are probably more hiatus in the ruleset. So you should look at all of them when you start rewriting.
Since WoT is scenario based I don't know if it suited for competitions anyway.
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Carcharoth
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« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2014, 07:53:58 am »

The ability states that the model must move more than 4" from its start position. That is intended to mean that it has to be more than 4" from it's starting point at some point (although it could loop back again if it has the movement), not that it has moved 4". It would be good to add a clarification.
I deliberately decided not to restrict charges to straight movement to make it more flexible.

I would like to try a relaxed tournament at some point, but it would hopefully not be a super-competitive style affair! I've tried to make the rules (and the wording of the rules) robust, but the best test if that is when you throw them out to other people. Keep up the questioning  Grin
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hithero
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« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2014, 08:46:16 am »

To clarify then, a Relan can loop round before contact to move more than 4" to get his bonus?
It would make sense I suppose, because if there was an obstruction between the 2 models and the knight had to detour she would get the bonus, so why couldn't the knight voluntarily make that same detour without the obstruction to get that bonus?

Yup, a few more questions arose last night but I'll re-read the rules again first in case something was missed Smiley
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NickH
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« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2014, 08:09:21 pm »

I prefer rules to be written in colloquial British English rather than specialist dialects such as Barkerese (for those fortunate enough not to understand this a quick Google will dispel your ignorance Wink ).
There seems to be a law of diminishing returns when you try to clarify a statement by adding more words as alternative interpretations seem to sneak in via every comma Sad


Given that the World of Twilight is a mutable creation that we can all contribute I'm not sure it makes sense for the rules to be written in stone for the benefit of a few tournament players? My advice is to think of what the rule represents, in this case a mounted knight gaining momentum before contact, the laws of mechanics require  this to be in (essentially) a straight line.

It might make more sense to explain what each special ability means so players can make well informed decisions rather than writing the rules in the style of a legal document .
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Carcharoth
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« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2014, 01:39:31 pm »

I hope I avoid too much Barkerese in the rules (never heard the expression before, but I get what you mean!)... It does seem that the more you try to make rules airtight the easier they are to misinterpret! It's always a fine balance between making rules clear and concise, but also easy to understand and without too many ambiguities. I'm happy with the general balance I've got, but I'm interested to hear any feedback or suggestions for improvements.
This period is also an ideal time for getting feedback from people who have just picked up the rules and started playing. I'll try to formalise the playtesting a bit over the coming months so I have time to implement improvements in the new book.

The idea of the Powerful Charge was to kick in when models have moved a good distance and gained some momentum. Being able to loop back wasn't really what I intended and I can see why you can end up in silly situations. One solution is if it just kicks in if you are more than 4" from your starting point at the end of a movement.
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