Diplomacy - rules rethink

[Carcharoth]

Hey all!

I've been working on the Casanii rules and in particular having a look at Loranti. He's an empire model, but he would usually have a group of Casanii as bodyguards during his travels.
The current diplomat rules wouldn't really work - it would allow him to join a Casanii force accompanied by 100pts of empire, but that doesn't feel right to me.
Which got me thinking about the diplomat ability. Only a couple of models have it so far (Obal and Danakan) and it is currently quite limited. I'm wondering whether to errata the rule to be broader so if you have a model with diplomat(X) then you can take as many of the X models as allies in your force as you like.
Diplomat (X)[T] This model allows you to take X models as allies. The X models and this model treat each other as being friendly.

What do you think? Is the change a good idea?

[Halcyon]

Shouldn't these be two different abilities ?

Diplomat currently allows you to take models from your own faction and join a force of Allies.

What you are suggesting is to allow you to take models from another faction and join any force.

This revised wording wouldn't allow either Obal to take any Delgon models with her into an Empire force or Danakan to take Empire models into a Delgon force.

Rather than changing the existing Abilitity (which would also make the reference sheets out of date) I would just create a new ability for use by Loranti (and others).

e.g. Respected Ally (X)[T] This model allows you to take X models as allies. The X models and this model treat each other as being friendly.

[Carcharoth]

Good thoughts!

It's the standard dilemma between adding new abilities or trying to use what is there already. I want Loranti to have an ability very close to Diplomat to let him take a Casanii bodyguard for his caravan, but diplomat wouldn't work in its current form unless I make Loranti a Casanii (which would seem wrong...).

The suggested tweak to Diplomat would effectively work the same as the current version, but removing the 100pt limitation. For example, you could take a delgon force with Obal in and then add an allied empire force of any size, either larger or smaller than the core delgon force. Taking a much larger empire force as allies would give the same effect as the current rules.

Having the change to the reference sheet wouldn't be too awkward - the current rules would still work and the tweak could be in the errata.

I do like your suggestion though and that is a good alternative, although we end up with two very similar abilities.

[Halcyon]

Ahh, the penny drops finally, I am with you now... it never occured to me that the Diplomat and his small entourage could be the main force and that you could then add a much larger force of allies ! 

e.g. Loranti and 100pts of Empire with 500pts of Casanii or Loranti and 500pts of Empire with 100pts of Casanii.

That is some clever lateral thinking... and very sneaky. 

However, this does mean that some rules lawyer is bound to want to play an Empire force consisting of just Loranti and Danakan and then 500pts each of Casanii and Delgon allies... which just doesn't feel right to me ! 

I feel the proposed change to Diplomat is too open ended, as it is trying let a model do two things. i.e. let it be part of another force as an ally and let it have allies in it's force, I just don't know how you could word it to close all the loop holes.

In summary, I still think that having two abilities would be the easiest solution.

[Carcharoth]

I'll keep thinking about it... You've got a good point that diplomat suggests the model is simply joining an enemy force with a small personal retinue, whereas the slight change makes it a far broader ability with the character forming a stronger alliance between cultures.

Although I wouldn't totally dismiss your Loranti/Danakan alliance - wouldn't be utterly implausible given the activity near Teral