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Author Topic: Religion...?  (Read 9213 times)
Brandlin
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« on: May 19, 2010, 11:44:35 am »

I know that the fubarnii worship gods that they actually KNOW to exist. This is somewhat different to our own experiences of religion which work on BELIEF.

I wonder how that changes the fubarnii appoach to worship? What cultural and moral implications does it have?

If they KNOW there are gods, does that affect what else they BELIEVE... do they have mythical monsters, demons, devils or the equivalents? Do they need myths to believe in when they already have monsters (devanu) stalking their real world?

This also got me to musing about what a fubarnii church or temple might look like (so i could build one). If you KNOW rather than BELIEVE your gods exist, how would that effect how and where you worship them?

PS - i worded this carefully so as not to get into a debate about the existance or otherwise of gods in OUR world... i dont think this is the place so keep it Anyaral please...
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Jubal
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« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2010, 12:45:56 pm »

I thought that the Fubarnii "believed" in the same way as we do, and that it was only the delgon who "knew" their gods existed... am I totally wrong?
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Brandlin
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« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2010, 01:27:27 pm »

errr you got me doubting now....

well if its just delgon, how does it effect them?
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Jubal
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« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2010, 02:18:10 pm »

I assume that it must affect them considerably... I mean, static temples would become realtively superflous as the only placce worht being would be wherever the Gods actually were; I can imagine that each Enarii/Belog has a huuuge train of following priests, pilgrims, etc... Hm. This needs thinking about. Tongue
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Brandlin
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« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2010, 02:35:06 pm »

Hm. This needs thinking about. Tongue

yup, thats why i asked... Smiley
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Emberbreeze
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« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2010, 03:51:31 pm »

I'm sure I'll get corrected, but the Empire are more than a little suspicious that the Belog are actually Enarii (gods) and as such would probably follow a more conventional worship, in temples (possibly with big telescopes?! to observe the moon where they live).

The Delgon priesthood strike me as charlatans (certainly the higher orders) using the Belog as gods to further their power. General Delgon citizens are probably very happy to have gods walking among them and swell the priesthood and army to further their goals. The Belog obviously know they aren't gods but are happy to play along. Some may welcome huge traveling retinues, or stay in the cities where they can bask in the worship of their followers, while others like Roban like to get away from it all and pick a fight with a Devanu or two. 

<waits to be corrected>
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Brandlin
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« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2010, 04:27:06 pm »

oooh i love the temples with telescopes idea!  that needs a cool name!

hmmm thats the first time i think i have seen anyone directly state that the Belog are NOT gods.
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Jubal
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« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2010, 05:57:02 pm »

It depends how you define a God, I guess. There doesn't seem to be any suggestion of supernatural power about the Belog, which is a usual criterion of Godhood in most religions... also one suspects that if the Imperials believed the Delgon priests represented the true gods they wouldn't have gone about hanging them from the walls of Gar Loren.

As I say, I suspect the Delgon worship where the Belog are or at places connected to them. I'd be interested to know what the Delgon worshipped pre-Belog, and if their ancestral religion was the same as that of the Fubarnii. For that matter (on a tangent) do the Devanu have any knid of religion?

Observatory temples sound awesome, though (perhaps someday our chief architect will make one  Tongue)...
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darth tater
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« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2010, 06:09:48 pm »

I wonder what happens to a Delgon if they witness a Belog fall in combat?  If a regular Delgon soldier saw Roban lose to some Devanu, would the priesthood murder them to prevent them spreading panic?

I suspect the Devanu only worship strength.  I imagine Arak Katain is revered, and feared, by his kind as the strongest of them at the current time   Grin
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Carcharoth
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« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2010, 07:12:14 pm »

The Delgon priesthood strike me as charlatans (certainly the higher orders) using the Belog as gods to further their power.
That kind of talk would get you swiftly executed in Delgon!
The 'standard' Fubarnii religion holds that the Enarii chose to live on the moon of Enar, and that if you look carefully enough you can see their fires burning at night. Certain engineers take the job of mapping the homelands of the Enarii very seriously, and have spent a lot of time developing optics to further their religious studies. Prior to the formation of the Empire it was commonly believed that the Enarii would come down from their home and sort out those dastardly devanu once and for all. There is a bit of disagreement whether the gods helped the Empire to form, or if the Fubarnii sorted things out for themselves without the gods. The current empire is more of the latter opinion and whilst he may not know if god exist, he doesn't see a need for them. This is quite a good example of how the Fubarnii believe in gods - they aren't all powerful and omniscient, but rather very old and wise creatures who once created the world and now live apart and observe it from afar. I expect temples and houses of particularly religious fubarnii would often have symbols and prayers painted on the rooves for the Enarii to read when they look down. When Fubarnii die they are ceremonially burned so that the ashes will go up to the heavens, and some part of them may find its way to Enar.

The Delgon belief is a natural extension of this religion - they were a devoutly religious people, and when the Belog arrived from over the mountains battered, bruised and injured from their journey it was the priests that identified their divinity and saw the great blessing that those gods had chosen to bestow upon them. The priests had to learn the language of the gods for it was not known on Anyaral before those times and most of the Enarii did not choose to learn the language of the delgon. Those translators obviously took on a position of great power, and that has not gone without some abuse. The priests should not be seen as fundamentally corrupt though and most are simply doing their best to serve their gods.

As to whether the Belog are actually Enarii? That is far from clear. They came from somewhere, and their stature and long lifespans certainly distinguish them from the Fubarnii. They do not have magical powers, but the Enarii of the old stories rarely did, and most Fubarnii are pragmatic enough to understand that stories do change in the telling.

Sorry, much rambling there! In summary... I would expect that churches would vary across the Empire, but ceremonial pyres and illuminated symbols on the rooves would seem fairly standard. The priests of the Empire would have a lot of similarities to Engineers and are probably just seen as a subset that study the gods and astronomy (and thus machines and devices associated with those purposes). Telescopes would be fairly standard as well.

If a Belog dies in combat? That would be a black day. But the gods have always fallen in battle, and that would not shake the Delgon faith. They would move the earth to retrieve the body and ensure it was given a suitable burning and the Delgon would mourn. This has only happened once to date, but that is a story for another time. There are something like 30 Enarii that came to the Delgon originally. A couple have not stayed with the Delgon, some have simply taken over a small portion of Delgon and live peacefully with their followers. Only a small number are overtly expansionist.

Beth is the expert on the old Fubarnii religions and will hopefully start a thread with a few stories...
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Jubal
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« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2010, 07:35:43 pm »

Can we then assume that there are no babby Belog around?
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Carcharoth
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« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2010, 07:41:50 pm »

Can we then assume that there are no babby Belog around?
Or Sempa for that matter. They all appear to be Kopa.
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Jubal
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« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2010, 08:09:14 pm »

And thusly can't breed. I hear ye.  Smiley
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Bethar
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« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2010, 01:45:31 pm »

Look at the myths on the main site, they give a taster of what some Fubarnii believe, or used to believe, or take their understanding of the world from.
One of the Big Questions is "Where did our world come from?".  A very ancient myth describes basically elemental forces bringing the world into being.  The Fubarnii (mostly) don't worship these elemental beings, or believe they take much of an interest any more.  The extent to which anyone Believes, or thinks of it as a nice fairytale, does vary.  However at this stage in their scientific development they don't actually have any scientific explanations for Creation.
The Enarii are a more recent theology, which is common to the Delgon and the Empire Fubarnii, although originally not the Casani, until they were made part of the Empire and absorbed their customs.
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Gethuch
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« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2010, 04:29:43 pm »


The Delgon still have temples. In fact, most of them have got considerably bigger since the arrival of the Belog. Partly because the Belog are big, and need/want places to live, and partly because it's important to show your Gods how much you appreciate them, particularly when they're here and very large.

Both main Fubarnii cultures have mythical creatures, although whether individual Fubarnii actually believe in them or not depends on how young/fearful/rural they are. And whether or not they've seen them!

The Ferals, and a few of the other regional cultures, are more interested in the Paloan, which are a sort of animist spirit which inhabits things, places and creatures.

Re: temples with telescopes
Yup! And they also regard landscape gardening as religious art.

There is a rumour that one of the Belog displays or has started to display some signs of Sempa-hood, but that's a bit heretical, and hard to verify. Also, how would you tell? They're a bit different from a normal Fubarnii...

Re: they don't actually have any scientific explanations for Creation.
Or, more accurately, they have lots, but none of them are very good!
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