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Author Topic: Religion...?  (Read 9221 times)
Rick
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« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2010, 02:27:06 am »

Sorry to resurrect this thread, but this seemed to be the best place to put this question. I imagined Empire temples to be for the whole pantheon, each with its own little "chapel" within the main temple, where people could make offerings as to what they wanted, a farmer for example might make an offering to Breye or Meded in the spring, for a good harvest. I can see where each of the major gods of the pantheon have their own area of responsibility (Air, Fire, etc.), but where do the Enarii fit in? Are they seen as demigods, each associated to a particular major god, with their own area of responsibility? For example - the Enarii Danomi (sleep, dreams and prophecy), would be associated with Sky? And presumably Garabon, as Enarii of war and conflict, with Shusur? Any ideas?

Oh, and btw what is the Fubarnii name for the god, Sky?
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 02:49:03 am by Rick » Logged
Carcharoth
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« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2010, 08:45:49 am »

I'll have a look at all this when I've got a little more time - busy day of work ahead of me! Looks broadly right, but I'll expand a bit more later.
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Rick
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« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2010, 04:23:01 pm »

Okay, I've reworked this entire post after Bethar's great input - there's a bit more on here now, and I've got a lot more work on the Enarii to do (need more Enarii names/aspects, pleeeaase?).

Fubarnii Pantheon

The old gods of the Fubarnii (Graak) are seen as the mythological creators of the world, and were worshipped in antiquity. The Enarii have replaced the old gods in most of the empire and are seen as ancestor-gods by most Fubarnii; most clans have a patron Enarii, some of the oldest clans even claim direct descent from some of the Enarii.
   While the old religion has mostly disappeared from Anyaral, a few of the old gods are still worshipped in the remote areas of Anyaral, and some traditions still linger on from the old religion, without most Fubarnii understanding their origin. For example; late spring is seen is a traditional time to set out on a long journey, having a small rock beside your front door is seen as a sign of protection, carrying a pinch of earth is seen as lucky and sailors will often pour a small cup of oil on the water before a voyage.
   While not every Fubarnii worships the gods on a daily basis, most Fubarnii know all of the gods and their aspects. The gods are seen as distant, more concerned with keeping the world and the universe running than interfering with individual Fubarnii at a personal level. That being said, a lot of Fubarnii make offerings to the god of their choice when they feel they need help. There are temples in most towns and cities, with a few priests and acolytes to tend to each of the shrines of the gods within. It is also common to find a small shrine to a patron god in a home or clan building, and wayside shrines to a particular god, special to that area, are quite common.

The Old Gods (Graak).

Sky (Sky)
Season = Late Winter
Aspects = Death (Good) and Funerals, Rebirth, Weather (Good), Justice, Law, Balance.
   Sky is seen as the over-arcing God, the source of all the (old) gods and absolute balance, as such they are seen as the neutral arbiter of all things, the god that ensures that conflict and peace, chaos and order are in balance, that neither gains an advantage. They are seen as the death and rebirth, the old year turning into the new year and who originally brought the Enarii to their home on Enar.

Kekekur (Fire)
Season = Late Summer
Aspects = Home, Family, Metalworking, Stability.
   Kekekur is seen as a homely god, she is the god of home and hearth, and of family and stability. She is also a crafting god, of metalworking and smithing.

Shusur (Water)
Season = Early Winter
Aspects = Death (Bad), Weather (Bad), Sailing, Conflict, Chaos, Passion.
   Shusur is seen as an ambivalent god, sometimes good, sometimes bad; a fierce, passionate god that lets their emotions rule their judgement. Shusur is also seen as the god of chaos, conflict and war, and as the god of violent death and murder. He is not so much worshipped as feared and offerings to him are seen as an appeasement.

Breye (Soil/Earth)
Season = Early Spring
Aspects = Fertility, Children, Birth, Luck, Future.
Breye is seen as simultaneously jenta, sempa and kopa in one form – she sees the past, present and future with equal clarity, and is seen as the god of luck, fate and foretelling the future, as well as the fertility god of birth and children.

Mek (Rock)
Season = Early Summer
Aspects = Mining and Stoneworking, Building and Architecture, Peace, Truth, Safety, Order.
   Mek is seen as a crafting god, but also as Shusur’s opposite, She is the god of order, safety and security, and protector.

Meded (Plants)
Season = Early Autumn
Aspects = Engineering and Woodworking, Knowledge, Healing, Harvests, Prosperity.
   Meded is another crafting god, but she is also a god of knowledge and learning, of bountiful harvests and prosperity through hard work.

Grak (Animals)
Season = Late Spring
Aspects = Animals, Courage, Hunting and Fishing, Travel, Protection, Strength, Life (Creation).
   Grak is seen as another ambivalent god, but more amenable than Shusur. She is seen as a protector god, through strength and courage, of all animals, and it is she that helps to protect travellers.

The Enarii (the new religion).

   When the worship of the Enarii originated, they were seen as demi-gods, followers of the old gods and, as such, were each associated with a particular god. Over time, as the old gods were gradually replaced by the Enarii, they came to take on some of the aspects of these gods and often, the season associated with them as well.

Roban (Retribution, the Avenger) (Sky).
Season = Late Winter
Aspects = Justice, Law, Divine Retribution (balance/an eye for an eye).

Danomi (Sleep, Dreams, Visions and Prophecy) (Breye).
Season = Early Spring
Aspects = Luck, Good Fortune, Guidance.

Garabon (War, Conflict, Strategy) (Shusur).
Season = Early Summer
Aspects = Victory (in battle), War, Conflict/Rivalry, Strategy.

Garen (Wisdom, Leadership) (Meded).
Season = Early Autumn
Aspects = Leadership, Knowledge (general), Wisdom, Learning.

« Last Edit: September 25, 2010, 06:35:09 pm by Rick » Logged
Bethar
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« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2010, 08:11:53 pm »

This is all very interesting.  It is quite different to what I was thinking, but as there are no doubt differences in different places of the empire, there's no reason why there shouldn't be a number of variations.
I had been thinking along the lines that the old gods aren't really worshipped any more.  They are treated more as myths, and the Enarii are the sole focus of worship.  I had imagined household and wayside shrines for the Enarii somewhat like Catholic saints or Hindu gods have.  I hadn't thought about temples in any detail but clearly they exist in some form, especially in the Delgon regions.
I can't remember exactly where your tribe is, but maybe they use your system in that area?  I like your aspects.  I'd just be a bit careful about colours - Tom has this complex notion that Fubarnii have more colour receptors in their eyes than we do so they see colours very differently.
The Sky God has no name.  Think of it like the Tao.
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Rick
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« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2010, 09:03:26 pm »

Ah, now that is VERY interesting.
Quote
I had been thinking along the lines that the old gods aren't really worshipped any more.  They are treated more as myths, and the Enarii are the sole focus of worship.  I had imagined household and wayside shrines for the Enarii somewhat like Catholic saints or Hindu gods have.  I hadn't thought about temples in any detail but clearly they exist in some form, especially in the Delgon regions.
In that case, it might be even more important to know what the old gods aspects are - even if they are not worshipped any more, the attitudes to the Enarii that are associated with that god would be shaped by the old beliefs, some of the Enarii might even 'take over' the roles of the old gods in the same way that some of our modern religions have trappings that predate them by millenia (the saintly or godly halo in modern christianity, for example - it stretches back to early Egyptian religion). If the old religion is worshipped anywhere, it would be in the Argoran and Casani territories - the ones most likely to survive might be Shusur and Mek, being the "good" and "evil" opposites.
Quote
I can't remember exactly where your tribe is, but maybe they use your system in that area?  I like your aspects.  I'd just be a bit careful about colours - Tom has this complex notion that Fubarnii have more colour receptors in their eyes than we do so they see colours very differently.
I seem to be associated with the Casani territories quite firmly now, lol - the Enasa tribe is on the ne edge of the Casani territories, just below the Argoran wastes (and yes, we do things slightly differently in Casani!). I did think twice about the colours, but decided to use this instead of symbols as an easier cop-out.

Nearly forgot - if the old religion did use temples, these are likely to be re-used by the Enarii religion, unless the division came during the Devanu occupation. And the way I envisaged the bigger temples was almost like a "multiple shrine" with an overall circular pattern; a central courtyard or circular colonnade, with individual shrines radiating out from that central area.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 09:10:10 pm by Rick » Logged
Rick
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« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2010, 09:30:32 pm »

I suddenly had this image of a blind priest in dusty robes, being led through the streets of a city by a jenta with a begging bowl, proclaiming loudly that only by returning to the old ways would the Empire be saved from the Delgon! Think I've been watching Children of Dune too much, lol!
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Brandlin
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« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2010, 10:21:35 pm »

blind io?
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Rick
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« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2010, 11:56:04 pm »

Nah, Paul Atreides, lol!
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Bethar
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« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2010, 01:22:35 pm »

Wow, your reworked Gods and Enarii is absolutely fantastic!  Love it!  Even the bits that I thought were strange at first do make sense - I wouldn't have associated Roban with the Sky God, but why not?  I see Roban as destructive, but that doesn't mean the Fubarnii have the same value system.  And of course Shusur is seen as a negative force.  Also, I love that Breye is Jenta, Sempa and Kopa in one.  Fab!
A couple of points - I think the ferals are the most likely to worship the old gods and maybe some animist spirits, and be less interested in the Enarii.  The Casani have modified to fit in with the Empire, but I had in mind that their original belief system would be completely different - they wouldn't share even the Old God myths, and certainly not the Enarii.  How they then adopt the Enarii will depend on how it would make sense in their original belief framework (maybe something like Santeria, which fuses Catholicism with voodoo!)
I've just started a university course so will probably be rather busy, but I will try to communicate more of the ideas I have about Enarii and so on.
Keep up the good work!
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Rick
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« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2010, 05:59:44 pm »

Thanks Bethar, it does seem like I'm on the right track with this, lol! I see Roban as being destructive as well, but a righteous destruction (sort of old testament, wrath of god against the ungodly, angel of death sort of thing). I tried to work Shusur in as the antithesis of what a good Fubarnii should be, rather than just saying "oh, he's bad!"" lol!
As to the Ferals - I viewed them as having the old religion, but to them the old gods still inhabit the world, Breye IS in the soil, Mek IS in the rock and so on; they probably name some of the animist 'lesser' spirits as aspects of the old gods - have to think about that one.
As to the Casani, I hadn't thought too far down that path, but I'll think about that - it's certainly going to be interesting.

Any chance we could have some more names of the Enarii?
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Rick
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« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2010, 06:46:36 pm »

As to the Casani - bit of a blank slate at the moment! I'm inclining towards a sort of monotheistic religion - 1 distant god (sun god - more like Egyptian Aten), but also spirits that can be communicated with through meditation/trances, with more abstract aspects than the Empire religion, but that are more immediately helpful. For example, a priest might communicate with a spirit to heal someone, or a different one to provide rain, or good weather.
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Bethar
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« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2010, 09:15:03 am »

Any chance we could have some more names of the Enarii?

Bleh.  At some point.  I have a half-finished list and a half-finished familiy tree somewhere, but I'll have to fit it in between writing an essay on the post-16 opportunity structure and designing a groupwork on careers for a bunch of year 10 students.

Off the top of my head:
Garen was the first Enarii.
Garabon married Mropa, Enarii of Death and they had two children Erak and Oran.
Saamse is Enarii of the twilight, son of Lyase and, um, Paju I think.  Night and Day.  Can't remember which is which.
That will have to do for now until my head stops hurting.
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Bethar
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« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2010, 03:02:46 pm »

Okay, more Enarii info.  This is just one construction, it might vary a bit between different clans.

Garen had four wives, Jahnuteni (enarii of age transitions), Gafya (weather), Mahnuke (Justice) and Yebsh (Hearth/home).
He had children with each of them.
Through Jahnuteni:
Dahnomi (sleep)
Krusso (wisdom)
Lyasse (day)
Enadu (time)

Through Gafya:
Ryuki (mountains)
Shiyen (forest)
Ahneshu (desert)
Freyahn (plains)
Kleanku (ocean)
Ahkavu (fresh water)

Through Mahnuke:
Keri (family)
Soenshi (neighbours)
Shodak (hospitality)
Engeste (trade)
Ahlsule (messages)

Through Yebsh:
Fisdu (boundaries)
Disdu (doorways)
Benoku (wells)

Lyasse (day) married Paju (night) and they had a child Saamse (twilight).
Enadu (time) was the first wife of Garabon (war) and they had children who became the Enarii of the seasons.  Then Garabon took a second wife Mropa (death) and had children Erak and Oran (attack and defence).

Jahnuteni became Kopa after Garen's death and took two wives, Enkushu (egg laying) who had a child Predu (hatching, and Argenash (hunting) who had a child Yahnalu (gathering).


A couple more not part of this family tree:
Andurth (metalwork)
Thasketh (painting)
Tissmey (farming)
Brahy (crippled)
Droshta (woodwork)
Genuri (textiles)
Raalke (glasswork)
Lilaan (music)
Kishgu (stonecarving)
Jokshe (medicine)
Mero (religious ceremony)
Gyenu (travel)
Fyaga (games)
Fianki (heroes)
Sdega (cooking)
Skor (pottery)
Sahnira (protection from wild animals)

Note that they did not all appear at the same time.  Some are old, really ancient.  Pre-settlement in origin, though the myths may have changed slightly from the original.  The trades are newer - clearly there can't be an enarii of glasswork until it has been invented!  But as trades become established, myths grow up around their origins.  Generally the inventor of glasswork/metalwork etc. is thought to have been made an Enarii because of that achievement.  In theory it is believed fubarnii can still became Enarii today, like saints being canonised, but it is rare.
 
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Ben Brownlie
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« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2010, 03:21:15 pm »

Interesting. Where does Roban fit into this?
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Carcharoth
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« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2010, 05:45:33 pm »

Interesting. Where does Roban fit into this?
Somebody is paying attention! Go to the top of the class.
I'm trying to remember this myself, but I think he falls into the 'others' category along with Andurth etc. I'm guessing Malog and Alaim would also fall under that category.

One thing to bear in mind is that while the Enarii have a primary 'focus' they are also a lot more complex than that, even going back into the old legends. The Enarii of the Delgon all have strong personalities, some that fit naturally with the old myths of the Empire, but others that are very different, often reflecting a quite transient nature in spite of their history.
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