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Author Topic: Using the waterways of Anyaral  (Read 5738 times)
Taelan
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« on: June 21, 2011, 08:33:52 am »

Waterways of Anyaral

Whilst I await my first models from Hasslfree, I've been thinking a lot about how the Fubarnii would deal with rivers, lakes etc.

I've taken a lot of inspiration from the Vietnamese river/coastal folk (and a few other culutures with similar ideas) and their bamboo circular rafts. They're sturdy, lightweight and a decent sized variation can merrily float several adults. Based on recent comments, I chose this design as one the Fubarnii could adopt. Most likely the Nerinii (Neh-ree-nee) who live in the regions around the great lakes have really taken the idea of floating over water to a wider degree. Their approach may have even been adopted on the coastal shores by more adventurous fish farmers.

They're built with natural materials, pitch and resin sealed and some of the weaving techniques actually work to strengthen the craft structurally. The art in science. I've actually come across a complete photoshoot of one being built from bamboo strips to launch, which was mighty interesting.

See the following images of Southern Vietnamese designs (of note is the one being used to work about the inshore fish trap nets) :




Some possible uses by the Fubarnii :



From travellers to fishermen and traders, the idea of a woven hull raft dinghy, would appear a novel way to traverse the rivers and waterways of Anyaral. Wily traders may even expand upon the designs, creating ovoid barge-rafts to carry great loads down slow streams and rivers, their usual caravan beasts hauling the barge along the river shore. This also of course, keeps the Fubarnii trader safely on the shoreline.

Overall, I'm hoping this sparks some discussion about how the Fubarnii might capitalise on the lakes and coasts of Anyaral, and these quaint woven hull boats seem a beginning.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 08:37:20 am by Taelan » Logged

Klute
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« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2011, 10:14:19 am »

Thats exactly how I imagined them. Would also make a handy shelter for overnight camping.
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Carcharoth
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« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2011, 10:44:01 am »

Do those count as Coracles, or is that something slightly different? I like the idea, and these sort of boats have turned up around our world. They are a tad precarious though, which I imagine the Fubarnii would have concerns over.

I must say I like the determined expression of the baruk in the last image, especially compared to the somewhat more nervous looking Fubarni at the 'back'.  Cheesy


I've been thinking about some slightly more sophisticated boats as well, but trying to figure out what the correct technology level should be. Small coracles and little boats in the river networks makes a lot of sense. I would imagine any Fubarnii venturing onto the sea would need a more substantial vessel. A bit of research over the weekend brought up some interesting ideas. The fubarnii are quite ingenious when it comes to putting their beasts to work, so I had wondered about treadmills and paddlewheels. I was assuming it was a bit too foolish an idea until I found out about Roman Ox-barges (paddle boats driven by oxen on treadmills)... I also found a picture of a rather ingenious 'ship' the French came up with (but never actually built) for invading britain - very big boat with buildings on with windmill powered paddlewheels along the sides. I've struggled to draw a nice looking windmill-powered boat so far, but applying a vertical-axis windmill might actually be a possibility. Paddlewheels are likely for larger boats along the coast, but those may sit alongside smaller, older style boats.
Steam powered boats wouldn't be too far down the line for the Fubarnii and may not be unheard of.
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Taelan
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« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2011, 11:03:44 am »

Quote
I was assuming it was a bit too foolish an idea until I found out about Roman Ox-barges (paddle boats driven by oxen on treadmills)... I also found a picture of a rather ingenious 'ship' the French came up with (but never actually built) for invading britain - very big boat with buildings on with windmill powered paddlewheels along the sides. I've struggled to draw a nice looking windmill-powered boat so far, but applying a vertical-axis windmill might actually be a possibility.

I was wondering about Windmill powered paddles as you had mentioned they had this Tech, but thought.. bit crazy. Count me surprised there was such a thing in ancient times. I'll go google that right now!

I can see these small woven-hull craft being used in relatively shallow water, hence my comments about them using Waterways. Certainly interested in finding these boats you looked at Carcharoth. I'm going to have a browse! Smiley

Glad you enjoyed the "balancing act" aboard the Baruk bearing craft. Cheesy

EDIT - Just read up on your leads. What an education in ancient craft. Ingenious sods!

- T.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 11:22:14 am by Taelan » Logged

Brandlin
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« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2011, 03:23:56 pm »

Quote
The fubarnii are quite ingenious when it comes to putting their beasts to work, so I had wondered about treadmills and paddlewheels. I was assuming it was a bit too foolish an idea until I found out about Roman Ox-barges (paddle boats driven by oxen on treadmills)... I also found a picture of a rather ingenious 'ship' the French came up with (but never actually built) for invading britain - very big boat with buildings on with windmill powered paddlewheels along the sides. I've struggled to draw a nice looking windmill-powered boat so far, but applying a vertical-axis windmill might actually be a possibility. Paddlewheels are likely for larger boats along the coast, but those may sit alongside smaller, older style boats.

wind > water power would be quite possible. You'll need a lot of mechanical advantage though. air density is much lower than water density so you'll have to have a LOT more air passing over the wind turbine blades than the amount of water you'll shift. So expect to have lots of windmills.

Water wheels are also very inefficient, cos as well as pushing the vessel forwards by pushing the water back at the bottom of the wheel, the front and back of the wheel are pushing the water down and up and wasting energy.

It's not very difficult to make a water propeller as we would know it today, the technology that stopped it was that it has to be a lot stronger than an air propeller or windmill because of the density of the water, so it had to be made from metal, and the only way to do that was when moderately complex casting and forging processes came about.
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Lost Egg
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« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2011, 04:07:00 pm »

Lovely sketches again Taelan. I especially like the idea of goods being pulled along by a beast on the river bank. I imagine that quite a lot of goods could be transported that way.

HN
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 10:34:26 am by Lost Egg » Logged
Carcharoth
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« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2011, 04:28:43 pm »

I meant to say that I do like the style of your cartoony sketches - Keep 'em coming  Smiley

I've failed to re-find the pictures of the big french boat... I'll have to look harder.

Water wheels may not be the most efficient, but they do look cool, and it took a long time for them to be completely superceded by the (clearly much more effective) propellers. I like the image of little animal/wind/steam powered tug-boats pulling large town-rafts, but I'm sure that's a foolish idea.
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Brandlin
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« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2011, 06:23:47 pm »

Oh I agree paddle wheels look cool.  I was simply trying to suggest that with their inefficiency, and the mechanical losses you'd need a LOT of windmill sail area to make the boat viable. Sails would be far more efficient and easier...

Other options might include an aerofoil, or a vertical windmill.

Not sure how you would make any of those look suitably fubarniiish though..
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Megatron0
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« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2011, 07:03:10 pm »

 I really liked the idea of the Da Vinci  boats in another thread. They seem advanced but also slightly wacky and that's how I imagine waterways to be dominated by. The small ships remind mw of fishing boats which I really like Cheesy
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Taelan
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« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2011, 02:32:30 am »

Thanks for all the feedback on the sketches. I'm a graphic designer by profession, so long using digital tools it has been good to simply illustrate again.

Think I'll pick up a WACOM tablet next, should have years ago.

Anyhow, I'm going to sit down and sketch out some ideas from all the above great feedback. With all the talk of water craft lately, it's been rich inspiration whilst I await my first Twilight models Smiley

- Taelan.

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Ekim
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« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2016, 12:46:04 am »

As a newcomer to the world I am greatly enjoying all the details.

As for transport they could use reed boats. There was a program about the Ark in which they built a spherical reed boat about 30' across in India.

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Erik
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« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2016, 07:07:07 pm »

I love the idea of waterways and water-folk.  Little stilt-mounted or anchored down houses in the middle of a calm waterway.

Reed hemisphere boats, standard wooden rafts, and even giant turtle-like creatures that can act as tanks with troopers on their backs if they exit the water.

What about food-divers, able to swim long distances, sneak around and insert on the game table stealthily? 

Maybe some kind of giant otter that can carry supplies as it floats on its back.  If attacked and injured, it may turn over, lose all the supplies, and scenario is decided.

Hmmm... the more I think about this, the more I like this theme.  Swimmers (WoT guys like SEAL, Marine Jaeger, or SBS), big turtles as amphibious transports and tanks, fishermen civilians, rafts, boats, and floating houses....
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Carcharoth
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« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2016, 07:43:18 pm »

It's worth noting that fubarnii don't make good swimmers - they sink very easily (except for their hooves, which makes them very ungainly in water!). The main fubarnii religion also sees drowning as a particularly bad way to die - no chance of reaching Enar.
However... fubarnii are nothing if not inventive! Special aquatic floatsuits are not uncommon, although most fubarnii just avoid getting in the water if at all possible...
Aquatic beasties would of course be a good idea. There are giant 'living islands' in the sea, but life in the waterways would also be interesting.
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Erik
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« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2016, 10:34:57 pm »

All the more reason to make some kind of special amphibious Fubarnii, as they'd really be an exception to the rule. :-)

A hi-tech approach is interesting, special floaty suits as you describe, maybe with air tanks or snorkels. 

But I was envisioning a boatmen culture and Fubarnii frogmen who can insert on the battlefield anywhere along the coast (and disappear again).  Special flipper shoes or even genetic adaptations.

Also, those hemispherical boats could be pulled on land, flipped over, propped up a little, and used as a shelter.  Cool modelling ideas.

Also, those floating island houses/bases could be especially effective against Fubarnii who don't like to swim, right?  Extra level of safety.

This also brings forth the idea of siege weapons, something that can shoot at these floating houses, like an onager shooting fireballs.

Sorry, I was a water polo player... my brain thinks like this.   Smiley
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Kryptovidicus
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« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2017, 09:23:15 pm »

The Engu are in essence a boatman culture, being whalers and all.
But following the story, even the Delgon got some ships now. So it might become a nice idea to do a ship battle.
Perhaps with some smaller ships, like the ones Taelan drew, to get in some reinforcements.
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